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Round Table: Mike Zimmer And Draft Vs. Free Agency

CINCINNATI, OH - SEPTEMBER 1: Cincinnati Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer argues with head linesman Kent Payne #79 during an NFL preseason game against the Indianapolis Colts at Paul Brown Stadium on September 1, 2011 in Cincinnati, Ohio. The Colts won 17-13. (Photo by Joe Robbins/Getty Images)

Joe Robbins - Getty Images

9 months ago: CINCINNATI, OH - SEPTEMBER 1: Cincinnati Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer argues with head linesman Kent Payne #79 during an NFL preseason game against the Indianapolis Colts at Paul Brown Stadium on September 1, 2011 in Cincinnati, Ohio. The Colts won 17-13. (Photo by Joe Robbins/Getty Images)

Jason and Josh sat down for another round table Monday morning and discussed the situation with Mike Zimmer, who some candidates could be to replace him if he leaves as well as the complications of drafting players versus signing them in free agency.

Enjoy.

Jason: While we haven't heard anything official, my gut tells me that Mike Zimmer will not be on the sidelines in 2012. If that's the case, who would be on your short list to replace him?

Star-divide

Josh: The names that continue to play favorites is Cincinnati's defensive backs coach Kevin Coyle and former Jacksonville Jaguars head coach Jack Del Rio. We suspect there's more on Cincinnati's developing list anticipating Zimmer's departure, but until Zimmer leaves, we won't know the full scope of Marvin Lewis' candidates.

Jason: Yeah, Coyle and Del Rio are the two big names on the list that I've heard too. Still, I would rather hear the news that Mike Zimmer is staying here. But, I think we've all known for a while that Zimmer wasn't going to be here forever. That's the problem with having a successful coordinator. It's kind of a double-edged sword.

Josh: Whoever it is, we have to believe that Marvin Lewis has increasing power to get the guy he wants. But whoever that is, they have to take advantage of the defensive front. An aggressive coach that helps negates Cincinnati's flaws in the secondary.

Jason: I agree. Hopefully with the right picks early in the draft and maybe a free agent or two, the Bengals can fill the holes on the defense and make the new coordinator's job (if there is a new coordinator) much easier.

Josh: I wouldn't be surprised if the team eventually promotes Coyle. The Bengals denied Coyle's interview last year for the defensive coordinator position in Philadelphia. Plus he's been as integrated into the defensive work that Zimmer has done for the past four years. Plus it makes the search that much easier.

Jason: Yeah, and he would specialize in working with the section of the defense that needs the most work, which could be a plus.

Josh: Or knows their issues and finds ways of hiding that. We can't expect high draft picks in the secondary to come in and be effective. Draft picks are always a variable you can't depend on.

Jason: That's true but I have confidence in the Bengals when it comes to the draft. I feel that they've done well over the past few years and while you never know who will be able to produce or who will be good and who won't, I think the draft is a safer route to go than free agency.

Josh: That's fine and good, but draft picks are far from certainties. The draft last year feel in their laps with the first two picks. But who else contributed? And 2010 was perhaps the team's best draft during the Marvin Lewis era. But there's only four players remaining on the team from 2009. Keith Rivers, Jerome Simspon and Andre Caldwell were selected in the first three rounds in 2008.

Jason: I agree that draft picks aren't guaranteed to be productive. However, when it comes to the future of the team, they can't rely on free agents either. Unless they're able to land a top-tier player, which would mean they would have to spend tons of money, they would just have to stick with stopgap players like Nate Clements or Adam Jones. They're decent for one or two seasons but after that the Bengals have to spend more money to bring somebody else in. It's like buying a TV from a rent-to-own store.... if that makes sense.

Josh: Totally agree. But when determining who your defensive coordinator is going to be, you have to apply how the team looks today, not how it might look tomorrow.

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Comments

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+1

Way to FUNNY!!!!

there's a website selling these t-shirts now

Zimmer not on the sidelines...

Is he moving up to the press box in 2012…..? I hope.

CBS rapid reports....

Jan. 13, 2012 1:42 p.m. – by Paul Dehner Jr. – Bengals have options if Zimmer leaves
Should defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer be offered the head coach job in either Miami or Tampa Bay the Bengals have options to replace him. One of the best options would be reuniting Marvin Lewis with former Jacksonville Jaguars head coach Jack Del Rio. Del Rio was Lewis’ linebackers coach in Baltimore and the two remain close. Bengals RapidReports

I like Del Rio….I love his passion

Del Rio still looks like he could put on a helmet and play...

but I think they will promote Coyle.

Everyone thought they'd promote Zampese too

but we’re dealing with the new-and-improved Mike Brown now. :)

this is true

This could be a revolutionary off-season due to Mikey 2.0(official 2012 cincyjungle mikey reference) ….

The Bengals had five 1st round DB's on the roster this year

Will another make a difference?

Every team in the league has trouble stopping the pass through coverage. The rules on pass coverage make it increasingly difficult and CB’s have to drop deeper in coverage than they like. That leaves the middle and underneath routes to the TE’s and slot receivers open. It seemed like the Bengals and every team in the league were having trouble with.

I’m not sure you fix that by bringing in new players. A defensive coordinator needs to get smart and creative to figure out a way to stop it. I don’t think it’s a personnel issue; nearly every team is having the same problem.

heh

I hear you on the first rounders, but buddy……Have you watched a single game this year….Our secondary needs help…period….when TJ Yates, Skelton and even McCoy (his guys had a ton of drops) look like Tom Brady…..you need help….I can run through about 50 plays this season that were just complete failures by our DBs….they were in position to make plays(coaching)…..they just didnt execute…..I do agree with you on the creative design of the defense…we can always look to improve this

I have watched a lot of games other than the Bengals

Almost every team in the league is having the same problems you describe. It’s not an isolated Bengals problem.
I’m not sure if you can fix it by bringing in a rookie or any of the FA’s availble.

I would think you would need to draft a cb, if for nothing else, speed

and cover ability. I hear what you are saying about five 1st rounders, but some of those were first rounders with other teams and have been in the league a few years. People tend to figure you out after a few years…

Also, look at the upgrade that we got from Tory James and Deltha O’Neal to Jonathan Joseph and Leon Hall….J-joe and Hall were vast improvements over James and O’Neal…

Tory James and Deltha

lol…I forgot about those guys…….yuck….Tory…tory….tory….wow…dont speak those names again please….lol

I know, I still have flashbacks of Santonio Holmes catching that pass

in overtime and running by TJ like he was a statue….

lol would you rather talk about atrell hawkins? I think had 7 career picks lol
Although, Hawkins did have that 100+ yd INT interception against

the Texans all those years ago….David Carr, where were you when we needed you. ;)

Also, and I may be throwing a monkey (no pun intended) wrench into

all this, but the only first rounder that is on the DB’s that we drafted was Leon Hall, all others were acquired via Free Agency (Adam Jones, and realistically, not many teams he could have gone to) and Nate Clements (no spring chicken there) or via trade (Jennings for a 7thr round DT, Nelson, for a 4th round CB). Guys who if they had lived up to their first round drafting would not have been traded to us for those picks…

we definately need to get younger at the CB, DT, and OG positions
+1 I agree....
i don't think its necessarly our CBs that need to be upgraded, but the SS postion needs an upgrade for sure

and possibly a FS if Nelson doesn’t resign. We need a play maker at the SS spot to really put this young defense over the edge the next few years. A safetly that can cover as good as they play the run.

it may be necessity to upgrade the corners

with Hall’s status unknown due to the Achilles and the UFA status of Jones and Jennings. Not to mention Clements only being under contract for 1 more season.

Of course the problem with drafting at 17 and 21 is everyone is predicting both Clairborne and Kirkpatrick – the top two corners to be off the board. I do like Gilmore or Dennard with one of the picks.

i agree we need to adress the CB position early in the draft but not necessarly in the first round

thats what I was trying to say. But yea I have a feeling Leon Hall will be out the first 6 weeks of next season and that means we will either need to sign a draft pick high or resign pacman or jennings to start at the beginning of the year. I think we will have a good shot at resigning one of the veteran CBs tho.

So Coyle is the current DB coach

and our secondary sucked all year. Why promote a coaching failure in Coyle? Need new blood.
Hire Del Rio as DC, Rod Woodson as DB coach and replace that turd Paul Alexander with Dermontti Dawson. New LB coach would be nice as well.

Did our secondary suck because of Coyle,

or because he suddenly found himself without what some called the best CB-tandem in the league. Safety has been weak for a long time though.

Especially with CC back there....
thas what I'm sayin

I dont really know why we love Kevin Coyle so much….I agree….we need new blood…Our secondary has been our weakness for years….maybe not at corner but our safety play has been awful…since I can remember

most people cant even name a safety that has played for the Bengals
David Fulcher.... :)
thats my point

bout time for an upgrade…dont you think

Agree

A GAZILLION Percent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First name I thought of

Tommy Casanova

Wow that's it....hire David Fulcher as DB coach!

Talk about laying some wood on somebody. This guy could bring it. How great would he be for Taylor Mays. But Rod Woodson is still my first choice .

yeah I like Woodson too

He is a smart guy with a good attitude

Fulcher's Vultures! WHO DEY!!
Sure, but...

Don’t think it’s as good a comparison to compare a product of our draft to a former 1st-round pick who was essentially given up on by another team.

Safety

We have to go after 1 of these guys….we have to at least try….we cant depend on the draft to fix this hole….too risky…

LaRon Landry (WAS)
Michael Griffin (TEN)
Chris Harris (DET)
Tyvon Branch (OAK)
Brandon Meriweather (CHI)

Also, we need to see Jeromey’s ability as well……

I know most of those guys will be locked up but just a quick list of some top FAs

and a man can dream

Safety might be the key to pass defense in the current NFL.

Guys who can come up and cover TE’s and slot receivers.
Guys who can be part LB and part safety and are still fast enough to drop into deep coverage.

+1

especially with the evolution of the TEs in this league

Reggie Nelson and Jack DelRio?

Do we really want to reunite Jack DelRio and Reggie Nelson?

Nelson looks to be the starting FS next year, and he and DelRio have a bit of a history. DelRio called Nelson out as “soft” shortly before the trade. I’m not sure that a Nelson DelRio reunion would be the best thing for Reggie.

That aside, DelRio has one season in his career when he served as a defensive coord. I haven’t been impressed with him as a HC either. It’s hard to say what he did with the Panthers that one year, but as a HC:

2010: 22nd in rushing D, 28th in passing D

2009: 19th in rushing D,27th in passing D

2008 24th in rushing D, 13th in passing D

The Jags defense is a very basic look, not the attacking style favored by Zimmer. That’s the nice way to say it… Predictable would be the not-nice way. We’re going to be looking at a basic cover-2. That has been true of DelRio’s teams through several coords.

In fact, the Jags showed major improvement this year once DelRio was relieved of his duties calling defensive plays.

Jack DelRio would be a terrible move for the Bengals.

In fact, the Jags showed major improvement this year once DelRio was relieved of his duties calling defensive plays.

interesting point…..lol…I forgot about the Nelson connection

I was thinking about the

Nelson and Del Rio, but I was not sure what happened between them. Thanks for the info.. :)

looks like Marvin

the “defensive genius” when he came to the Bengals… Bengals D sucked until Zimmer got there. Period. The end.

If an aggressive new D-Coordinator is what you want

Then Steve Spagnuolo is the guy. He is a former assistant at Philadelphia and New York (Giants). These are two of the more traditional defenses and have bred numerous Pro Bowl players on their respective defensive lines.

Spags is my No.1 choice if Zimmer leaves, followed by Del Rio then Coyle. I would like to see them go outside to hire a replacement.

Agree.

Spag is the real deal.

I don't mind Spags coming here...

at all unless it’s as a HC because he would certainly be a downgrade from Marvin there and I don’t want to see any more 3 or 4-win seasons (not that the HC position is in any doubt at the moment anyways). But as a D-coordinator I would love to have him. Dick LeBeau returned to coaching defense when he went to Pittsburgh after failing as a HC here and turned their defense into an elite unit so I have faith that Spagnuolo could do the same if he came here. Plus teams won’t be looking to hire him away as a HC most likely because of his ugly tenure with the Rams so we’d likely have him a lot longer than we had Zim even if he manages to upgrade our defense from solid to elite status and draws attention.

Would love Spagnuolo....

We also need to generate Turnovers on defense….

Easily, Id want Del Rio as our DC, he's a proven coach and thats what we need
Dollar for dollar you generally get more for your money in the draft than you do in FA - especially here.

Guys hit the market for a reason and usually it is because the team they have been playing for, the team who knows them best, don’t think he is worth the money they will be demanding in FA. We could have franchised JJ if we wanted to but obviously he, as good as he is, isn’t worth the money the Texans paid him. FAs are generally over priced for what they contribute. There are noteable exceptions but they, IMO, are just that exceptions and you need to be very careful regarding them. Look at guys like Sam Adams and Antionio Bryant, 15 mill or more on nothing. I would rather build thru the draft and be selective where we put FA money. It is very easy to get burned. What did TJ do for Seattle or the Ravens? What did Chad do for the Pats? Look at the Eagles – my God – what a mess, and ditto for the Jets. We need to do what the prime examples of good teams like the Steelers, Ravens, and Pats do and that is build thru drafting smart. Of coures you do have to be smart to do that and this team’s IQ has only recently risen above room temperature. Once again, we bengals fans need to be patient, hopefully not fruitlessly this time.

you know zimmer wants to be a head coach badly if he's willing to go work for the bucs

their history of being frugal when it comes to putting a team on the field is something mike brown would envy.

but they did win a Super Bowl
and we went to two

not sure what then and now have in the comparison. the fact of the next tampa bay head coach will have to deal with in 2012, is not when they last went to the super bowl, it will be the tampa bay bucs current front office which likes to keep the bucs at the bottom or top of the salary cap list (depending on which way you look at the stats).

This team will have some money to spend in the offseason and they have to fill some holes like keeping Nelson and a couple of other spots.

That way when the draft comes you can really take the BPA instead of “having to pick a player to fill a big hole” because thats where draft bust come in and we have been down that road before. I think this year every team has to spend like 90% of the cap…..no more penny pinching for this organzation.

Tory James Sam Adams.etc Damn I forgot about thoses guys. Damn this team has gone threw so many people it's hard to keep track
49ers

Added 2 DBs totally changed their D… if you compete for the right top guys free agency can be great. Mike Brown can’t or won’t.

we get it tiger

you hate Mikey…..why dont you just post this every time

I HATE MIKEY

I HATE MIKEY

ect…………..

I'll make it my signature.

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