With the combination of Marvin Lewis coming into a contract year and the lackluster playoff performance this past January against the Texans, many are wondering whether Marvin Lewis is the right man to lead Cincinnati going into the future. Lewis is 0-3 in playoff appearances and in his nine seasons has a losing record of 69-74. Is this a good record for a nine year NFL head coach? Most would say that it is mediocre at best, but with the combination of Lewis inheriting one of the worst Bengals teams ever in 2003 (the Bengals were 12-33 under Dick LeBeau from 2000-2002) and coaching in one of, if not the, toughest divisions in the NFL, the stats might be a bit easier to swallow for most.
One person who definitely thinks Lewis is the right man for the job is Brian Billick. Bengals beat writer Joe Reedy writes that because Billick and Lewis worked together in Baltimore for three years, he knows more than the average person about Lewis' ability to lead a team and Billick thinks that, no matter what his record is, Lewis is the perfect fit in Cincinnati.
"Marvin is one of those coaches who has a keen eye for talent. All coaches think they do but very few do. Whether he wants to do it I don't know," Billick said. "His ability to adapt to the youth of the team by narrowing the focus of the top management. You've got have ownership/general manager and the player personnel guy with a shared vision. You don't always have to agree, you can disagree and dog cuss each other but you have to come out with a shared vision. I think Cincinnati is approaching that."
It is no secret that when head coaches come to Cincinnati, there is a certain level of power that they have to give up because of Mike Brown's control of the team as both its owner and functioning general manager. This was no different when Lewis showed up in 2003 and took the reins as the Bengals head coach. The difference between Lewis and all previous coaches since 1991 and Sam Wyche is that Lewis has slowly changed the mindset in Cincinnati and, as Billick said, has the same vision for this team as Mike Brown, and it is beginning to show with some of the personnel decisions that have been made in the last few years and the recent successes of the team.
Say what you will about Mike Brown and his rule over Cincinnati, but it is evident, especially after the 2011 draft, that he is relinquishing some of his decision-making power to Lewis and his coaching staff. This is no more evident than the trading of Carson Palmer to the Raiders this past October for first and conditional second round picks. This may seem like an easy trade decision for most Bengals fans, but we must take into account the Ochocinco debacle with the Washington Redskins in 2008 and Mike Brown's stubbornness when it comes to players demanding trades when considering how monumentally shocking this move was at the time.
Marvin Lewis, although he has had a few rough years during his time in Cincy, has taken a consistently 2-14 team and turned the team into a playoff team who is on the brink of becoming the team to beat in the AFC North. It may be physically painful for many Bengals fans to admit, but Mike Brown has been just as important to the Bengals' turnaround as Lewis.
This is merely a preliminary observation of where the relationship between Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis is at, but what we have seen lately is more promising than anything we've seen over the past 20 years. Only time will tell if the Bengals are actually on an upturn and will finally have back-to-back winning records, but one major test will come on April 26th and, personally, I cannot wait to see what Brown and Lewis can do when they roll up their sleeves for the Bengals' two first-round picks.
0 recs | 97 comments
It took a LONG time.
But Mikey finally trusts someone else with the decision making on this team, and I believe it is going to pay off big time. I say thank you to Marvin for sticking it out and showing patience. I think he is finally going to have HIS team on the field. So excited for the draft and for the future of this team.
Ben-GAL - February 1, 2012
+1
DiddyGotGrillz - February 1, 2012
This is why Marvin for GM must happen
he is really the only guy mikey will trust with decision making imo.
9 long years of wrestling control away from mike brown is a hard job especially when your the HC and 1 of a few scouts.
Marvin has done a decent job and a few of those years we got hit with injuries like the plague. but I think he can do a better job running things from up stairs. and then we can get a HC that can focus soley on coaching.
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
Marvin Lewis
Is one of the Reasons, I think the Bengals target a Trent Richardson or Doug Martin over any of the other RB’s that are being discussed. Both these guys are workout freaks and as Marvin likes to describe them bring there “lunch pales” to work kind of guys. They are not afraid to do all the little things involved in the running game like BLOCKING and catch passes, instead of just running the ball.
biggie22 - February 1, 2012
I've been saying this for a couple years now...
Love him or hate him – Marvin Lewis HAS brought this team out of the dumpster and back to a respectable. Sure, he’s made some bad decisions along the way – but over the last 3-4 years Mike and Marvin have made pretty good personnel decisions to get this franchise back on track.
Sure – 2010 was a debacle, but look at the Colts in 2012. This is the NFL people – teams have down years.
I really believe we turned the corner a couple and now it’s now about getting the right guys in here – and that started last April at the draft and should continue this year.
If you take and OBJECTIVE look at what Mike Brown has done over the last couple years there are very few holes. (Except the Antonio Bryant Move)
DiddyGotGrillz - February 1, 2012
*respectable level
DiddyGotGrillz - February 1, 2012
I agree...
Marvin, has been grinding for the past 9 years wearing down old man Brown til finally Marvin is getting more power over the team and selection of players. It’s Marvins team now. Noone to challenge him and changes happening that are so apparent you’d have to be blind to disagree. With this 2012 team having 2 first round picks, coming off an appereance in the playoffs, 5-6 total spots to be filled via FA and draft, a solid group that is al about the TEAM and winning, an indoor practice facility, and most importantly the team and Mike Brown is behind him! 2012 should be special.
Dwight Carter - February 1, 2012
The Bengals
are better off then alot teams at this point.
Dwight Carter - February 1, 2012
Never thought we would be able to say that again.
Ben-GAL - February 1, 2012
I have one request from Mike and Marvin....
Become more active in Free Agency early on – fill some holes that we wouldn’t need to address in the draft. If they do this, we can have a VERY good 2012.
DiddyGotGrillz - February 1, 2012
I agree, but...
I don’t think anything will change with the Bengals frustrating absence in the first 24-48 hours of FA. If it did change, I would be VERY surprised.
Mike Fightmaster - February 1, 2012
Because thats when the big cash grabs are going on
Big $$$$$ players dont always work out the best. sometimes the guys left play better due to that chip on their shoulder.
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
Disagree here
Money spent aggressively pursuing the marquis free agents usually ends up with a poor ROI. I think Josh did a writeup on this recently.
I’m in favor of the value approach that Mike takes toward FA.
EarthwormJim - February 1, 2012
I'm ok with a patient value approach as long as Brown isn't picking the players.
Animal_Like_Football - February 1, 2012
take into account the ocho redskins issue?
lewis would have packed chad’s bags and driven him to the airport, buying his ticket as well. lewis wanted “ocho-psycho” gone. that wasn’t his call.
palewook - February 1, 2012
Not sure I buy this just yet
I hope Marvin is getting more control – it sure looks that way after the last year
20 Years of Mike Brown doesn’t wash away quite that easy – another strong FA and draft would convince me. They have the money to spend in FA, and the picks in the draft to do it.
TX Bengal - February 1, 2012
I fully agree with you.
After the draft and once OTA’s start, I’ll be convinced. Convinced of what, well, that will remain to be seen.
Mike Fightmaster - February 1, 2012
man you guys.
yes mike brown had a horrible start the 90’s but compare the 2000’s to the 1990’s and its a drastic improvement. and so far the 2010’s have gone well. (we will consider 2010 the end of the 2001-2010 era) the palmer era
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
Marvin has been a good evaluator of talent
however, his coaching and game time decisions haven’t been great. His clock management skills haven’t been great. I’d rather have him in the FO (which readers have been clamoring for) but I think we need a better in game coach.
sgiridharan1982 - February 1, 2012
Mike Brown Owner
Marvin = GM
HC = Mike Zimmer
DC = Not sure who will be avialable just yet**
OC = Jay Gruden
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
I'm not sure about Zimmer
I think he’s really good but I don’t think he’s HC material. I’d rather have Jay as our headcoach. HC quarterback relationships seems to work in the NFL today. Sean Payton/Drew Brees, Mike McCarthy/Aaron Rodgers. But I want to see what Jay does with an entire off season. I’m not sold on him yet. I think he’s done a great job but 2012 will be the litmus test for the Bengals and their consistency issues.
sgiridharan1982 - February 1, 2012
i like him as HC
because he seems to get the most out of every player. even we had no great talent on D he got them in the top 10
he had a #1 ranked D with Crocker @ saftey that says alot lol
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
+1
Mike Fightmaster - February 1, 2012
+1
As much as I like Zimmer, I don’t know that he has the organizational attributes to be HC.
I think Marvin makes a better GM than HC, but I think he still likes the HC job more for now.
The team has done a better job of filling in coaching staff vacancies recently. I think this might also be due to Marvin’s input. I hope so — that makes his candidacy for a GM position even better. GM’s don’t just have to evaluate player personnel — they have to be able to fill out a staff. This is just as important.
California Bengal Fan - February 1, 2012
Its only ONE year.
He needed a qb cuz palmer didnt want to play. Half way threw the season brown saw that dalton was good and that palmer wasnt comin back so he made a deal with the raiders who thought they were making a runoff run. After a couple things FELL into place people r calling Brown a genius
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
"FELL into place?"
What exactly fell into place? I know that Campbell breaking his c-bone was a bit of divine intervention on behalf of Palmer and the Bengals, but outside of that, Mikey boy made the deal and came out light years ahead of the Raiders in it. Brown is far from a genius, but he knows business and he swindled the Raiders out of two draft picks.
Mike Fightmaster - February 1, 2012
Point is here doesnt matter what fell into place
palmer wasnt getting traded unless mike brown changed his mind… which he did and ended up helping his franchise and still making a pretty good point of if you want out its on my terms not yours
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
So thats why people arnt buying tickets?! Cuz he makes great points!?
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
2010 is the reason no one was buying tickets
after a 4-12 season when you trade chad away and your QB quits and ticket prices remain the same… didnt help
plus more people not having the money to go
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
Make them allllll cheaper
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Fell into place as lucky campbell went down and raiders had the crazy thought of super bowl
And wanted a qb no matter what, even with a crap def
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
And if MB had stood by his refusal to trade CP
People need to get over this I hate Mike Brown, he sucks, doesn’t matter what he does, he will always suck, he gets no credit, cry baby BS
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Fact of the matter is
Mike Brown could have put the kibosh on everything good that has recently happened with this team
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
So because someone gave him a lopsided trade im suppose to forget he sux
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
He could have decided to not trade him
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
And thats what i thought was goin to happen.
Teams were trying to get him in the offseason. Brown said no. If it wasnt 4 dalton and the raiders bein impatient then palmer would prob still be retired
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Fact of the matter is
he STILL made the trade. I get he sucks, but people need to get over themselves
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Over themselves? In what way
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
It's just pretty pathetic
when people can’t take into account strides people are making for the better.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Dude really? Strides?
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Yes, I would say strides...
When was the last time we had 2 rookies and 2 second year players play in the ProBowl?
pemci - February 1, 2012
Ok if the pats werent goin to the sb it would just be aj
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
And in prevous years
how many even had that chance?
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Right. C ur makin my point. Why didnt they have a chance?
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
No I'm not making your point
you are confusing all points. I am done with this exercise in futility. It’s like trying to explain something to pray4gm11
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
So why didnt they have any chances. U dont answer questions
U just spit more crap out tring to make a point
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
You didn't answer the first question put to you...
in previous years how many had that chance. We are talking about Brown making strides to get better, and you are stuck in the past. Talk about spitting crap…
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Ur right i am stuck in the past thats prob why i think the was i do
I hope he changes his ways
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Small market team.
Plus, until Lewis’ arrival, the team was seen as the worst team in any sport.
pemci - February 1, 2012
The amount of power that Lewis
has been able to gather from Brown is also a testament to Brown changing his ways.
pemci - February 1, 2012
Your using alot of If's
What “IF” the Bengals would have gotten to the Superbowl??? The point is he’s gotten better at making decision overall in the past few years “IF” you can’t see that at least a little bit there is no point in having this conversation…
Dwight Carter - February 1, 2012
+1
pemci - February 1, 2012
Ur right the newspapers werent saying he was the worst owner
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
WAS
Key word there….
pemci - February 1, 2012
Yes Dude
really
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
And it's not just the trade
We made good moves in FA, good drafts, use of Bearcats practice bubble (while not their own bubble, it’s better than busing it to the indoor soccer field), making concessions on stadium repairs (which he doesn’t have to do since the county voted that they would pay for them), etc, etc.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
And ur talking about this one pass year
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Drafts have been decent
the past several years.
And this is the first year he doesn’t have Palmer lobbying for TO or whoever else
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Teams get a draft pick number and they pick the best player.
Unless ur 1st pick nobody knows. Brown didnt even want dalton.
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Oh gawd
Really? Who cares if he didn’t want Dalton, that’s who he picked. AND THAT"S THE POINT.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Ur blowing sunshine up browns ass and im tring to firgure out what UR POINT
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
No I'm not
and if you can’t figure out the point, then so be it. It’s obviously not worth trying to explain it to you.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Because you really can't spell it out any simpler
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Ur point is that brown is changing and mine is ur cant tell after one year
Better?
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Hey I know what my point is
You’re the one who couldn’t figure it out
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
What is it then? Everything u say is that brown is makin huge strides
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Done
useless
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
I am wondering how NJbengalstat and Pray4gm11
would get along? :)
pemci - February 1, 2012
Perfectly it seems
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Wow just because u dont agree with me ur getting upset
Calm down guy its just an opinion and i dont think im the best debater ever like some people
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
Whose getting upset? Me?
Trust me, I am not getting upset.
pemci - February 1, 2012
"i dont think im the best debater ever like some people"
Hahaha.. :) That is funny… thanks for the laugh…
pemci - February 1, 2012
Pray said he was. U compared to him. Ur lumping two people based on one opinion
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
I think he understood what you meant
and is why he found it funny. Wasn’t laughing at you, but with you.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
Exactly as Oregon said...
I too retract my comment comparing you and Pray… I am sorry. :)
pemci - February 1, 2012
Its all in good fun
njbengalstat - February 1, 2012
+1 Thank You.. :)
pemci - February 2, 2012
Haha!
Ok I retract my statement :-)
Oregonbengalsfan - February 1, 2012
He started improving the day he hired
Marvin Lewis, all you have to do is look at the record pre Marvin and then post Marvin
biggie22 - February 1, 2012
3 post season appearances (granted would have like to have all been wins)...
compared to zero playoff appearances for: Shula, Coslet and LeBeau….
pemci - February 1, 2012
Brown may not have wanted Dalton
but he picked him…That in and of itself is a huge step
Helmsy - February 1, 2012
Brown may not have wanted Dalton,
but in the end, he acquiessed and accept what others had to say.
pemci - February 1, 2012
ooops, that is acquiesced....
:)
pemci - February 1, 2012
Lewis Setback
Lewis lost Odel Thurman and David Pollack. Then Palmer went down.
These three could have made all the difference.
Tough luck for everyone.
Chili Dog - February 1, 2012
Dont forget chris perry
brillant in 05
Career destroyed by incompitent medical staff(all of which have been replaced)
Bengalsfan024 - February 1, 2012
Very true....
you could also add Dennis Weathersby to this list as well. We never really got to see what he could contribute to this team as well. Adam Kieft blowing out is ACL’s, Ben Utecht getting a career ending concussion in practice, Chris Henry’s untimely death….
pemci - February 1, 2012
There was a stretch of losing players that I'm not sure was matched by any other team
The Bengals essentially lost their starting linebacking core. Lost their franchise QB. Lost the best 3rd down back in the league in 05. The list goes on. There was definitely a string of terrible luck.
WOOD98 - February 2, 2012
I fully agree with that....
pemci - February 2, 2012
Marvin and Mike work together
I have liked Marvin from day one and more importantly Mike has and the players have. Marvin always seems to be rebuilding because of circumstances beyond his control and if he can get some stability and keep healthy players, well who knows. Mike Brown gets a bad rap most of the time but you have to realize that He can do what he wants and Mike has stuck to his conservative business principals and has provided well for his family and I think he is a little stubborn but that may not be a bad thing. I know other people have done less with more. Why Cincinatti got that reputation is in the past and players may be starting to see it. Win or lose It seems they are swinging away.
Backyard Bengal - February 1, 2012
Who are the two guys in this draft who can become a Larry Bird.
Boston lost 60 games. Then Boston drafts Bird. Boston wins 60 games the next year.
Are there two guys who can turn the Bengals around?
Only Decastro and Mark Barron.
Chili Dog - February 1, 2012
I like DeCastro and Barron to a lesser extent
But even if we draft them both I don’t think they’ll be Bird-esque
Animal_Like_Football - February 1, 2012
Scene: Mike and Marvin discuss their shared vision
MB: “Okay, let’s find out what we have in common. I don’t know, um…do you hate it when lowly people ask questions? I mean the fans, the media, people like that.”
ML: “God, yes. That’s always horrible. It’s hilarious that they think they actually know something. I’m the expert, they should just shut up and listen to me. I mean, I’m an incredible clock-manager, I’ve won all these playoff games…”
MB: “…”
ML: “…well, okay, I didn’t technically win them, but I should’ve. It wasn’t my fault, it was just fluky stuff. Those fluky 38-10 games that either team could’ve won.”
MB: “For my part, I’m a successful businessman. I’ve taken extremely minimal financial risks, and by my calculations, those risks should have resulted in zero winning seasons. But we got three! You can’t multiply by zero, but if you think about it, that’s at least a few million times better than I projected. Huge, huge success.”
ML: “We’re both really cautious, that’s part of our shared vision. I’d like to punt on third down. Gruden will be all, ‘Hey, let’s run to the outside!’ And I say, ‘Whoa, easy there, you anarchist! Run up the middle!’ I still have nightmares from how much we had to throw it. Run up the middle, run up the middle. Blue-collar. Lunchpail. Bellcow. Do your job.” (Marvin dissolves into giggles, repeating various cliches)
MB: “We both like the same type of players, too.”
ML: “Well…”
MB: “Offensive superstars are what sell tickets, so we have to get a lot of them.”
ML: "Right, and some of those superstars are projects. Physical freaks that…don’t exactly know how to play their position at the NFL level. I love coaching those guys up, especially on defense.
(Mike hears the word “defense,” starts to zone out)
ML: “If they don’t know football, it means that I won’t have to un-teach a lot of stuff. And then I can program them with Marvinisms.”
MB: “If I let you draft another hulking, can’t-cover safety, will you let me draft a flashy wide receiver?”
ML: “We actually need those, this year, so yes. And I like that you don’t trust young people.”
MB: “I’m not letting them take over until they prove they can be as successful as I am.”
ML: “And I don’t let rookies play unless I absolutely have to. I’d rather rely on a savvy vet like Chris Crocker or Nate Livings.”
MB: “Wow, we have even more in common than I thought.”
ML: “I like playing people away from their usual positions, too. Clint Boling is a natural LG, let’s play him at RG! Let’s have Rey play SLB for a few years! We thought about moving Dunlap to DT, we’ve never known what exactly to do with Collins or Rivers…Gresham is a great receiving TE, let’s have him block a lot!”
MB: “Wait, usual positions? How is that something we have in common?”
ML: “Well, I’m a great talent evaluator that’s currently a head coach, and you’re a too-big-to-fail businessman that’s trying to figure out how to deal with this whole ‘competition’ thing. If I were just a talent evaluator, and you were just a businessman, we’d probably be safer…but I think it’s great that we’re trying to stretch our limits.”
MB: “Bah, it’s press conference time. We need to go defend our unassailable records to the peons, once again. Smithers! To me!”
Katie Blackburn: “I…am not Smithers.”
Big Sky Bengal - February 1, 2012
way too long.
UIsteve - February 1, 2012
+1 haha
Mike Fightmaster - February 1, 2012
I'm definitely wordy
If I knew how, I would’ve posted a “lol didn’t read” gif to go with it.
Big Sky Bengal - February 1, 2012
pretty funny
I don’t think Marvin is quite as clueless as you depict.
However, I do think Brown is.
California Bengal Fan - February 1, 2012
I totally support Marvin Lewis. Taking a team to the playoffs twice in the last 3 years despite all of the issues (both on and off the field) is no easy task, and given the team mike brown has built for him over the past 2 seasons (did I really just say that?) I think he’ll be able to really do great work with them in the very near future. I just think it’s funny that his jersey in the Bengals pro shop not only depicts the year he took over, but his playoff record as head coach.
MattLeitner - February 1, 2012
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