Earlier this week beat writer Omar Kelly with the Sun-Sentinel wrote that the Cincinnati Bengals have $80.6 million against the salary cap for next season, giving them incredible breathing room for a salary cap that's projected to be roughly $121-125 million in 2012. Jamison Hensley with ESPN's AFC North blog confirms that the salary cap Cincinnati has to play with, citing that the team is $44 million under the cap.
Now you're thinking, oh my god they never spend money, Mike Brown is cheap, etc. Maybe. However the team has been well under the cap since last year due to the team's resolve not to risk Carson Palmer's return, who could have pressed his exorbitant cap number against the team's cap number and forced the team to take on his salary. Luckily Mike Brown is a mad scientist genius that rivals a James Bond villain, having helped establish a core of young players, acquiring two draft picks through drafts for this year's NFL Draft and roughly $35-38 million to play with for incoming free agents (reduced due to the expected rookie pool).
Yet unless the team ridiculously overpays free agents, that cap number won't skyrocket north any time soon. And we still have an issue that a team with this much cap room didn't employ enough resolve (or foresight) preventing Houston from snagging Johnathan Joseph in the middle of the night. Not that we're still moaning about something that happened months ago.
0 recs | 96 comments
Sweet picture, I hope..........
we don’t end up doing that will all the money we have to spend!
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
I bet the bengals spend big on 2 names
maybe not the names people are wanted but we will bring in a quality gaurd and a wr via FA
Bengalsfan024 - February 10, 2012
I envy your optimism...
haha
Mike Fightmaster - February 10, 2012
I hope you're right
except they bring in a quality guard (Nicks) and a CB
indesignkat - February 10, 2012
I picked WR
because they usually take longer before they start contributing (when drafted)
Bengalsfan024 - February 10, 2012
Awesome picture
Joe Goodberry - February 10, 2012 via Android app
Ive seen Mr. Brown the other day and took a picture. Thought I should share...
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
Nice pic
Tampa_Bengal - February 10, 2012
I bet we still don't go too crazy in FA
But they are more than likely to get very aggressive with extending several of our own players (Thomas Howard, Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, etc)
biggie22 - February 10, 2012
I'll take our own players
over buying a dreamteam like the egales did!
homebred players that learned the system from the beginning are just better (see Pats, Giants ect.)!
- still a couple of free agents like last off-season could be a nice addition! I’ll take a:
WR like Manningham
CB like Web (from Ravens) – could also be Routt (Raiders)
OG like Grubs
if we do that we could use the draft to pick up players who can be bred up in the system, without the pressure of being a starter
Christian Gaarde Nielsen - February 10, 2012
Rather snag Meachem over Manningham
Manningham just isn’t an upgrade over Simpson. And my ultimate choice would be Wayne with his vast vet experience. By the time Wayne’s short contract is up, our young #2, whoever that may be, will be ready to take over.
Oregonbengalsfan - February 10, 2012
experience doesnt mean anything if you have no more playmaking ability
Mexal - February 10, 2012
Uhh Wayne has play making ability still
Oregonbengalsfan - February 10, 2012
And besides that
he provides good mentoring for our young guys
Oregonbengalsfan - February 10, 2012
I keep coming back to this
because it’s just so hard to fathom… Do you really think Wayne has no playmaking ability???
75 receptions for 90 yards, 4 TDs, 50 first downs, 12.8 yd average with a lot of big plays all from horrible QB…
Oregonbengalsfan - February 10, 2012
960 yds, not 90 yrds
Oregonbengalsfan - February 10, 2012
Agreed
We never go crazy in FA. We’ll sign a couple of mid-tier pick ups that will serve as role players and extend a bunch of their own young guys. That is a pretty standard FA for the Bengals.
To be honest though, if they lock up Nelson, Dunlap and Atkins long term, I’ll consider this offseason a success.
Mexal - February 10, 2012
+1
Christian Gaarde Nielsen - February 10, 2012
They'll spend, the won't overspend.
2011 proved that the old Mike Brown way of running that team is no longer in force. We all assume that Marvin now has greater control of the front office.
I think they’ll make some noise in free agency, and aggressively re-sign their own guys.
What they won’t do, and shouldn’t do, is pull a Dan Snyder and overpay a first day free agent just to get a name.
Even though he went to the pro bowl, Houston overpaid for JJo. The bengals didn’t resign him not because they didn’t want to pay him a reasonable number, but because they didn’t want to over pay someone who had missed so many games thus far. Houston came in with a silly deal that didn’t reflect JJo’s abilities because he was one of very few good corners out there.
You’re not going to see the Bengals back the money truck up to the tier 1 free agents. They’re going to be measured and purposeful and fill a number of spots with people we will later say “Wow, that was brilliant.”
See also: Manny Lawson and Thomas Howard.
Skyhook - February 10, 2012
+1
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
Joseph is one of the best cornerbacks in the league and is far more athletic than Leon Hall.
He would have been instrumental in the next few years with slowing down guys like Torrey Smith, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, and if you have Superbowl aspirations, the Saints or Packers ridiculously deep WR Corps.
There’s a reason that Houston’s defense went from bottom 10 to top 10 in a year, and Joseph was a big part of that. You’re underrating him.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Wade phillips knowing how to run the D helped alot....
Bengalsfan024 - February 10, 2012
ill take a smart sound tackler in leon over a more "athletic" corner
Jjoe left he betrayed the team we love, he is gone. lets talk about something else. Leon stayed and is far better. I agree he isnt faster..It bugs me that people talk about how bad Leon is. He was a FA who got more guaranteed money than what we offered, so he left. Jjoe was hurt every year here and we had Leon. What were we supposed to do? It worked out for houston, they have a great front seven. Jjoe had a great year because he had to go up against what pro bowl caliber QB in that division? Imagine how good our d could have been if we would have replaced 4 games with the steelers and ravens with the colts and jags. pacman would have looked like charles woodson. that last comment was obviously an over exaggeration but you get the point.
cincybengals - February 10, 2012
it bugs me about how bad JJOE** is.
cincybengals - February 10, 2012
This kind of logic is homerism and giving excuses.
Leon Hall is NOT a better player than Jonathan Joseph by any measure. Period. It’s not debatable. Joseph is making 4.7 million guaranteed a year to be a top 5 corner in the NFL.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
exactly
He didn’t betray a damn thing. He went to the team that wanted him more. That’s how the game works.
indesignkat - February 10, 2012
leon hall was a better techniqually sound player
but yes joseph had more athletic ability
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
This just isn't true.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
well lets be real, the Texans invest the majority of thier first round picks to their D fense
so im sure Joseph had a lot of help as well over their in Houston.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
Way too much discussion about extending players on this blog lately.
Yes, Atkins and Dunlap are good. Atkins is also under contract until 2014 and has two more years left on his deal. So does Dunlap. No reason to extend them this year. Give them another year to prove they’re not Robert Geathers, then pull the trigger.
Howard is a journeyman who was very good last year, but I wouldn’t extend him after one season.
I think Reggie Nelson should be re-signed.
Also, you guys should really learn about Brandon Carr. He’s way better than the CBs I’ve seen discussed around this board. I just can’t fathom why Bengals fans aren’t salivating over guys like Carl Nicks and Carr.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
I would love Carr but
KC has a lot of cap space too, so it would be surprising if they let Bowe and Carr get away. On the other hand, the Saints will have a problem keeping Nicks. Even if we dont get him, I hope the Bengals at least make him an offer.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Yeah, I suppose the Chiefs could retain Carr.
He’ll want and get #1 money somewhere, though. He’s young and good.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
I know the Bengals would like him too. I know he was a player that they had come in for a personal workout, the year he came out. He would be a great addition but KC will have a lot to say about that.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
+1
You said it all.
Brandon Carr would be a dream signing (and maybe they should spend the money on him that they let out the door when JJo walked away), but KC is going to lock him down.
Animal_Like_Football - February 10, 2012
if we do get FA's...
lets go after positions that traditionally work, like OG or C. I’m scared of bringing in a big name WR who doesn’t understand the system and does things his own way. I dont think that will happen with gruden but I would rather ignore skill positions in FA and spend money on Nicks or Grubbs. I do however like the idea of at least talking to Routt or any other corner that has NFL talent.
cincybengals - February 10, 2012
Agree about the o line, but.....
also agree with the point that got brought from above that WR’s usually take a year or so to develop (unless your name is Green). So bringing in a #2 would make sense, someone who can make an impact right away. But generally I would agree to focus on the lines and stay away from big name skill players. Normally you just overspend and don’t get their best years for the money.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
yea I was going to mention the WR FA class
I like the idea of bringing one in as well, I can’t lie. I love the sexy pick ups. If it works it will work out big. I think that we will ultimately have to pick one up this offseason. I don’t know who. I think Vjax will want to much money for us although he might be my favorite. Pierre also had a decent year with painter throwing him the ball somehow. I would love to bring in Desean i know he is a headache and he will theoretically get slower ever year. but that play making ability impresses me
cincybengals - February 10, 2012
Meachem seems like the type of guy we would go after......
second tier guy, wouldn’t command huge dollars. Would be okay with that, not flashy or anything but reliable, has speed and can stretch the field for AJ so he can’t be doubled nearly as much.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
Routt from the Raiders
has been cut. We might be able to sign him for a reasonable price.
sgiridharan1982 - February 10, 2012
We can sign all our players and still get 2/3 big time free agents. We have money to set our team up for next 10yrs if we manage it right.
pray4gm11 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
most of that cap space will be gone when we resign Dalton, Green, and Atkins
so just as long as we don’t make to many long term commitments in FA this year, I will be fine if they spend a good chunk of change on year or two year contracts because Dalton Green and Atkins will be resigned before they even play the last year on their contract. Which is in a couple of years.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
I'm sure.....
We’ll drop a few contracts between now and the time those guys are up for extensions too.
Stanley1 - February 10, 2012
You have to remember
Our salary money just cycles. If we do spend big money this year there will be money come off next year with players that leave or sign cheaper contracts. Rivers & Smith are good examples of guys we might keep but on a cheaper contract than their first. It’s not like their going to sign FA to.contracts that are going to take 10 mill a yr. The guys you mentioned don’t even come up for FA for a couple more seasons and the Bengals usually wait until the yr before and that’s a good thing. We don’t need another Geathers deal plus Dalton plays the highest paid position and I don’t see them giving him Palmer money. We don’t have to worry about saving money to sign anyone.
Bigcatdaddy - February 10, 2012 via Android app
yea but those 3 players i mentioned aren't going to be cheap
and will have to worry about money if we sign anyone past a two year contract because that will over lap the time when we would resign Andy AJ and Geno.
all of those players are going to have 50 plus million dollar contracts… with AJ and Andy probably around 80 million each
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
basically we cant just over spend because we have the money now
we basically need “temp” players to fill our needs until, we can draft the players we really want or resign the players we really need to keep.
Thats why the bengals never really worry about going over the cap because they always think long term. Thats one of the things our front office is really good at, unlike the steelers
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
I totally agree
biggie22 - February 10, 2012
Unlike the Steelers, who have won two Superbowls in the last 10 years and consistently go to the playoffs.
Yeah, I’d hate to be like them. I vastly prefer to be a Bengals fan, where 8-8 is a good season and the playoffs happen once or twice a decade.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
yea they won super bowls by drafting their OWN players
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
You're going in circles...
Our front office is good at thinking long term, but the Steelers’ isn’t, but they win by drafting well and retaining good talent? Hm.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
lol no sir
my original point was not to over spend just because we have the money. The steelers had the money and over spent to keep their own players. and now their in a bad position because there going to have to let some good players go because they didn’t plan it out well.
then you said somthing about them winning super bowls and i pointed the fact out, that the players the over spent on was their OWN players, which leads me back to keeping the money aside for OUR core players.
You build your team through the draft not FA. Steelers FO isn’t that good with money obviously.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
But you want the Bengals to extend a bunch of young, unproven players?
I’m not following the argument. That’s how you get into the situation the Steelers are in.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Lol well if they happen to crap out by then, then hell no we don't waste our money on them
I don’t think their unproven, AJ and Andy had both had record breaking rookie years. And Atkins was tearing it up all this year and last year when he was in.
what there not to follow?
save our unallocated money for Andy, AJ, and Geno by not signing a bunch of long term FA contracts these next two years. When the time comes to resign them, make sure its a priority. Then work our way down the list and try to resign players like shipley, gresham and m. johnson….and so forth
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
Also
10 mil comes off the books next year when the contracts of Geathers and Clements expire. The money will be there to extend guys when the time comes.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
not if you sign a bunch of 6 year contracts this season
and I would like to also try to sign Gresham, M. Johnson, Shipley to long term deals too, but they wouldn’t be priority over Dalton, Green or Atkins
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
Shipley has played one season.
Grseham has 2 years left. Atkins has 2 years left. Green has 3 years left. Dalton has 3 years left. Why give these guys more money NOW when they’re cost controlled?
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
lol you must not understand how NFL contracts work?
yes, the big three im talking about has at least 2 years left on their contract.
So, if you to keep those players at resonable price, you don’t let them come close to FA. Try to resign Atkins, Dalton, and Green a year before they become FA and you get a “cheaper” longer term deal.
In theory, you sign any where up to four 6 year contracts with the best FA you can find. The will ask for around 5-10 million dollars for base salary plus signing bonuses. You can kiss our contracts to secure all Andy, Geno, and AJ gone because we wont be able to afford them.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
If you had some evidence, I'd be more inclined to believe you.
In the NFL, extending a player with 2 years left on their deal is incredibly poor strategy due to volatility and injuries. Entering extensions talks when a player has 1 year left on his deal is still acceptable, especially since many players simply re-sign with a fair offer. This isn’t like baseball.
I’m advocating the general philosophy of: re-sign important FA players (obviously), extend players with one year left on their contract (Green may be an exception where I’d do 2 years out, but definitely not 3), and since you have to max out spending in a year anyway, go after the best talent you can in FA at the biggest need-skill matches (OG, CB this year).
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
I think AMAS is basing his stance on Madden
In a video game it makes sense to extend a guy who has 2-3 years left before he gets really expensive, but in the NFL it’s just silly.
indesignkat - February 10, 2012
lol i think im pretty accuarate when it comes to money
give me a list of top teir free agents that wont want a base salary of between 5-10 million with signing bonuses.
all these people want us to go crazy in FA when we have the money, but the more money we spend now, the less we have a chance of resign our own top tier players.
and im saying the bengals typical sign their top players way before their contract is up. Look at Peko and whitworth. lol never said to resign them now, resign them the year before their contract is up, Andy, AJ, and Geno that is. IF you want to get any type of deal on them.
Just wait till AJ resigns. Its going to be the biggest contract on the bengals will have on the team.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
re-read my comments, never said they should resign them two years before their contract is up, i said resign them two year from now
which would be the last year of the contract or the offseasn before thier last year.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
I don't think anyone wants them to break the bank
It would be nice to get guys to fill holes untill we get to draft a player at that position. Even if they do want to spend big they can just front load the contract and by the time the guys you’ve listed come up the money will be there. If they still deserve it.
Bigcatdaddy - February 10, 2012 via Android app
well im trying to get people to see the bigger picture here
I think we have enought money to sign mabye two top teir FA , and then fill the roster with a bunch of one and two year contracts. lIke what they did with Lawson and howard.
Plus we will most likely sign a bunch of own FAs to shorter term deals too, with the exception of Nelson and Nugent. They will probably be the ones we need to resign to longer deal contracts.
AMAS85 - February 10, 2012
That's what I've been saying the whole time.
I guess we were talking circles around each other. I only want to see the Bengals get guys like Nicks/Grubbs, Carr, maybe one other guy.
jsl413 - February 11, 2012
I'm fine with that.
But spending a little money now won’t preclude that later. They’ll have other money off the books, the salary cap will increase, etc. 44M under the cap is ridiculous. That’s a whole lot of money.
jsl413 - February 11, 2012
This is a dumb question.....
But will most free agents have signed before the start of the draft? Will we know going into the draft what we are not going to be able to fill via FA, or how does that normally play out? Since we have a few obvious holes to fill (CB, RB, S, OL, WR), it’d be much more helpful to know if we were going to be able to sign a Bush, or a Landry, or a Manningham, BEFORE the draft.
Stanley1 - February 10, 2012
I dont see Landry signing with anyone til training camp
He has the achillies that he refuses to get surgery on. So he wont get the contract he wants unless he shows it wont be a problem.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Josh put up a good artilce on the important offseason dates.........
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/2/9/2787040/important-dates-to-remember-2012-nfl-offseason-schedule
Free agency opens up March 13th, then of course the draft isn’t until end of April. So we’ll know what holes we can fill with FA signings prior to the draft.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
Thanks
I saw that article, I just couldn’t really remember if most FA’s signed before the draft, or if the process usually played out longer than that.
This will help us IMMENSELY. If we can sign a few guys at positions of need, we can make much better use of our draft picks.
Stanley1 - February 10, 2012
i want the bengals to sign Stephen Tulloch, MLB, Detroit Lions
screw wasting any more time or risk with rey and the possible suspension. trade rey or let him ride the pine. he’s earned it at this point. the starting jobs aren’t gifts, you earn them by what you do on the field as well as off the field.
palewook - February 10, 2012
+1
My only concern is that the Lions didn’t exactly shut down the run very good last season. I do however think they need to replace Rey and not because of the fight but because I just don’t think he is very good.
Yarin - February 10, 2012
I think that ha more to do with their wide 9 scheme
They run on their defensive front. Plus, their DT’s are awful at stopping the run and keeping the Guards off of the LB’s.
whodeycommish14 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
I've been saying this ever since he left Tennessee
Tulloch is a beast. Just shuts his mouth and plays. No off the field issues. Reads through the Guards just as good as anybody.
whodeycommish14 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Especially with Rey being as injury prone as he has been as well.
I think he has a bionic ankle at this point, similar to Roy Williams’ Robocop forearm that he had to have attached because he shattered it so many times.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
"Letsssssss put a smile on that faccccce"
Come on Mikey. Let’s make this squad something to remember. Bring in Nicks or Grubbs to sure up the o-line. Also, snatch up a tough corner or a WR that can stretch the field. Use the draft to your advantage. You have everything at your disposal Mikey. Use it….
whodeycommish14 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Same issue.
Let’s be honest, most of these big time FA’s are gonna get very good contract offers from other teams. If it comes down to having to over pay to get them it’s just not gonna happen. That’s MB’s MO. I don’t see us having a very good shot at landing any of the top tier guys. Cincinnati stills has a bad rep. warranted or unwarranted— we still have it.
But we can always hope!
Yarin - February 10, 2012
We can offer up to 8+ to 2 top tier free agents. And just remember its not always good over paying for free agents. Look at Philly, Dallas, Jets and Washington they over spend for players and don’t even make playoffs. Teams keep there best players so you gotta really do your homework into why that person is available.
pray4gm11 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Terrible examples, besides Washington.
Snyder doesn’t know what he’s doing, but Philadelphia and Dallas will contend for playoff spots for the foreseeable future.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Philly and Dallas were at home this year. Contending and actually making it is totally different…
pray4gm11 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Gotta remember, they are free agents for a reason.......
meaning, someone is thinking they aren’t worth the money they are asking for and their best years may already be behind them. A lot of times what earned them their huge contract, end up being their best years. Then a slow decline after they get the big bucks.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
I totally agree, but
There are a few examples of teams like the Saints & Pitt that are in a bind. Look at the Saints the have some good FA and great FA but they are against the cap. They can maybe 2 good FA and let a great one walk or sign a 1 great FA and let 2 good FA walk. I agree with you but this year there is going to be some FA that are worth the money with gas in the tank.
Bigcatdaddy - February 10, 2012 via Android app
I agree and I think that's who we will target........
I think a lot of times that’s why we don’t target the huge names. Not only because Mikey is cheap, but because most of the times they are the biggest risks. I do agree on a guy like Nicks, young, proven and NO already has the highest paid G in the league. That is when you put up some $$$.
The Van Buren Boys - February 10, 2012
with rey latest off feild trouble
That all but guarantees will a least be looking for a lb in draft or free agency. A sure tackling Mlb would make us even more dominate up front on defense…
pray4gm11 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Luke Kuechly at 17, then Gilmore at 21
DTFCPDX - February 10, 2012
LB is the defensive RB to me.
Dime a dozen in a 4-3 defense.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
you don't think a good MLB would have made a difference on those long runs we gave up?
Especially to the Texans and Ravens?
indesignkat - February 10, 2012
Probably not.
DL let the C/OG pick up the MLB. If the OL has a free release to the second level and the MLB gets sealed, there’s not a lot he can do. Someone just blew their gap assignments on those plays.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
I just want them to be active.
Sign some of our key guys. Then go out and get a Routt, Middleton or Thomas to upgrade the cb’s. If they dont want to spend a lot on a guard. I will take a 2nd tier guard like Zuttah or Rhinehold. Get a Wayne or Meacham at wr.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
And then
Bring in a safety like Branch or Lowry. I think a group of players like this wouldnt break the bank but at the same time, with a solid draft, improve this team greatly.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
More bad thinking from Bengals fans.
Activity = good. Good thinking.
Settling for middling talent = bad. Sign one top tier FA, not three second-tier FA. Find good fits for the team worth the money (Nicks, Carr) and build through the draft rather than overspending in FA on second-tier talent that is only good relative to the other FA talent available and thus demands more money than they’re worth.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk.
I’ve just seen a lot of misguided thinking in the comments here lately and I’m trying to positively affect attitudes about this team. We should be maximizing elite talent as much as possible, while retaining efficiency. That means not re-signing young players two years before their contract ends, not going after middling talent, and using FA to off-set draft NEEDS so that more elite talent can be stockpiled.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Im saying second tier contracts
Terrell Thomas may have been the 2nd best cb in FA if it werent for a injury. Branch could be one of the best safeties in FA but I dont think they will be expensive players, that could perform way better than the contract they get.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
That's fair.
I may have unfairly singled you out. I’m just trying to adjust the general thinking around here. Too much groupthink and talking head regurgitation.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
I understand
We all would love the best of the best but with this ownership that unrealistic. If they use free agency to fill holes with decent upgrades, then they can use the draft to get elite players, instead of reaching for needs. Thats all im saying.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
And you fill holes in free agency and build your team through the draft
Expectations need to be tempered. The Bengals have never went out and signed the best of the best,so why would anyone expect it now? Whether its 2nd tier,3rd tier or whatever. Its about making the team better than last year.
EPK1979 - February 10, 2012 via mobile
Maybe they HAVEN'T, but that doesn't mean that should be what we want as fans.
And some names like Landry, Meachem, Wayne, Bush, the Oakland CB – just wouldn’t help.
jsl413 - February 10, 2012
Bond
Jaws?
Animal_Like_Football - February 10, 2012
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